JHH: What drew you into an interest in CLPs?
ECH: In our presbytery it was evident about 10 years ago that a trend was emerging in which we have more and more churches that, having been served previously by a Minister of Word and Sacrament, were no longer going to be able to do so. Either … their size had gone below the level that logically would be served by a minister, or … they could not afford a pastoral package even in partnership with another congregation. We had had some lay pastors deployed, but when the Book of Order changed the training requirements and established the function of the commissioned lay pastor as we understand it today, it was clear to us that we needed a whole new set of policies and a training module that was much more comprehensive to meet those requirements. And I was appointed to head-up a task group to work on it. Out of that emerged the model that we have in Kiski Presbytery that has now been adopted by several other presbyteries at least.
We have a two-tier model. We have some who are fully commissioned and trained as commissioned lay pastors. And then we have another much larger group that we call authorized lay preachers. In our presbytery we fill at least 100 pulpits a month for churches that are either chronically vacant — without regular pastors appointed to them — or have a temporary supply need. We have to utilize lay preachers to fill all of those slots. So we put them through basically the same training as the CLPs, but they don’t go on to do the comprehensive examinations, and they’re not actually commissioned to a congregation.
JHH: Tell me more about the distance-learning component in the training.
ECH: Distance learning has turned out to be a wonderful vehicle to increase the intensity and value of training, because those who are doing distance learning can much more easily coordinate if they have a career or a family because they can do it in their homes on their own time, and the level of academic work that can be done in a 12-week course online is roughly three times that done in a weekend seminar taking the same number of weeks.
JHH: What’s working with the CLPs?
ECH: A number of our congregations that are staffed by CLPs have found stability, and some of them have grown … (because) since these are congregations that aren’t able to afford much of a salary, if a minister does accept a position like that, they often can’t afford to stay very long, if they have a family to support or if they have debts to pay for seminary. So, the CLPs have stopped the revolving door of pastors that stay a year or two and then look for something that will offer more in terms of a salary. Many of our CLPs are indigenous members of their own communities. Their sermons are expressed in a language that seems to be closer to the heart of the people in the congregation they’re serving.
JHH: Some folks oppose the office of CLPs due to their significant gap in training as compared to the M.Div. required of Ministers of Word and Sacrament. What about that?
ECH: Our training is more comprehensive than you might think. They go through fourteen twelve-week classes. With us they take Old Testament 1&2, New Testament 1&2, Christian education, Reformed theology, sacraments and liturgy, three preaching classes, a history course, a pastoral care course, and a polity class. I don’t (know) how you would go about establishing equivalency levels, but if you’re comparing it to what it takes to be a minister, I would say that ours has the equivalent of about one year of seminary, as opposed to the three or four years that ministers of Word and Sacrament go through. Those who are opposed to it point out the gap in particular Biblical critical skills and with other forms of theological training, particularly on the critical side. Many of the ministers in this presbytery (who) have deep questions about it are raising cautions based on the reality that, just a few years ago, these congregations were served by those who did make the sacrifices and put in the time to get a full seminary education. And they wonder if we are setting up a two-tier model of cheaper preachers that many congregations will campaign to get a CLP since it’s much less expense. Some of them wonder, What did I go to seminary for? Or I could have taken several months of part-time classes and gotten the same results.
JHH: As a matter of fact, calling an unpaid or part-time CLP is easier for the members than doing the sacrificial stewardship necessary to pay a full time minister. What about the claim that some churches are just doing ministry on the cheap?
ECH: It is not a problem “if the presbytery is doing its work in terms of truly discerning with the congregation the intensity and type of pastoral care that they need. Some churches are complex enough that they are wisely served by somebody with a full seminary education, and some congregations don’t need that intensity of ministry and they are better matched to a CLP. I often compare it to those times when we go see a doctor that is a full licensed physician and those other times when we are content to see a physician’s assistant instead. I think of the CLP on the level of a licensed practical nurse. They can do many things that a minister can do. They can’t do all the things a minister can do, and there are times when what you need is not a full doctor.
JHH: What’s ahead for CLPs? What hopes do you have to make this ministry office more effective and impactful?
ECH: In our presbytery, over one-quarter of our churches are chronically vacant. We have 25 that don’t even have a CLP, because they’re too small for that, too. One of the things that I’m hoping that we will begin to do is to tap into the amazing leadership and educational skills of many people who are retiring from careers, often with early retirement, and hoping that they will go through commissioned pastor training and will become what I regard as chaplains serving congregations that are not ready to be closed but are going to be at that point within five years. One of the advantages for us is that these are people who already have housing locally, have medical benefits already, and they have other pension and retirement arrangements already. They are free to be much more nimble in ministry, because they don’t have to move and they don’t have to depend upon it for things like medical care. So they can go into a church for a year or two and then move on to something else.
JHH: Last question: What is a kiskiminetas?
ECH: It is debated. It is an Indian word. It might mean three rivers or it might mean burnt almonds.
