Salt Lake City — On its second full day of business, the 226th General Assembly (GA) of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) approved 420-2 the nomination of Jihyun Oh as the next stated clerk of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.). Oh, born in South Korea and raised in Kansas, is the first woman of color to serve as stated clerk. She follows Acting Stated Clerk Bronwen Boswell, the first woman in the role, and J. Herbert Nelson, the first person of color in the highest ecclesial office of the PC(USA). Outlook reporter Eric Ledermann and Editor/Publisher Teri McDowell Ott sat down for a one-on-one interview with Oh to discuss her leadership, her priorities and the business before the 226th General Assembly. Oh will begin her work officially on August 1, 2024.
The following conversation has been edited for length and clarity.
Teri: Thank you for talking with us, Rev. Oh, and congratulations on your election.
Can you begin by telling us about yourself, how you see yourself as a leader, and what your priorities will be as stated clerk?
Jihyun: One of my biggest priorities is working on the unification issues with the Unification Commission [uniting the Office of the General Assembly (OGA) and the Presbyterian Mission Agency (PMA)]. I’ve been a part of the coordinating table bringing together staff of OGA, PMA, and the Administrative Services Group (ASG). We know unification can happen structurally, but it takes a lot of time and attention to address organizational culture issues and things of that nature. And so [unification] will be a huge priority because we want the process to succeed.
[Unification] will be a huge priority because we want the process to succeed.
Another one of my goals is to get to at least one of all the board meetings for the agencies and entities where the stated clerk has a seat. I want to meet some of those board folks and staff and hear what’s important for them in their work.
I also want to engage our ecumenical partners and strengthen those relationships. We are planning a trip to visit the [World Council of Churches] and the [World Communion of Reformed Churches] offices to be able to listen to some of our global partners and hear what they’re thinking about.
And of course, I want to continue to reach out to mid councils. One of the things that I’ve been thinking about is how to connect with presbyteries that haven’t seen a national staff person recently. I want to balance the invitations that might naturally come to us with reaching out to those who might not think to connect with the stated clerk.
Eric: In the past, it’s often been presbyteries or synods that request a visit from the stated clerk. Are you thinking about initiating those visits?
Jihyun: I haven’t thought through exactly what that process will look like. But I don’t ever want it to feel like an agency or the stated clerk is imposing.
Eric: I feel like the national church has been really careful, almost to a detriment, some might say, of not initiating those visits and waiting to be asked.
Jihyun: Well, and one of the things that I had been really excited about was in August of 2020, we were supposed to go and visit Kendall Presbytery. And we had arranged for J. Herbert to join me to go visit. This was one of our smaller presbyteries. And they were really excited about the visit. And then the pandemic happened, so we had to cancel that.
My priorities really are going to be about listening, leaning into relationships, just hearing what’s on folks’ hearts of how they’re seeing the Spirit moving in this time.
My priorities really are going to be about listening, leaning into relationships, just hearing what’s on folks’ hearts of how they’re seeing the Spirit moving in this time.
Teri: In my travels as the editor of the Outlook, I get the sense that people are hungry to be heard. There’s the feeling of disconnect between the local church and the national offices; there are bridges to be built there that I think are really important.
I really appreciated what the stated clerk nominating committee shared about you. Everyone mentioned your humility — that you can admit you don’t have all the answers.
In terms of your leadership style, how do you go about finding answers? Who do you surround yourself with? And who will you be actively seeking to listen to as the leader of our denomination?
Jihyun: I would say my leadership style is collaborative. Also, systems thinking. Then I would add self-supervision. Those three are really important to me.
When I don’t have the answers, I think, “Who have I heard talking about that in an innovative way? Who is asking deeper questions?” There are appropriate times when we might invite those interested to weigh in on a decision.
I’m deeply informed by Peter Senge and his work on systems. I want to be a leader that asks us to think more broadly. I think my job as a leader is often to share ideas that may not sound like they link together and string them into a coherent whole that is better than the sum of its parts.
I want to be a leader that asks us to think more broadly.
That process includes facilitation and listening, asking: “So if we put these parts together in this way, does that make for a good solution?” Or, “What are some better questions or other questions that we might be missing? What levers ought we to be pushing? What might we be forgetting about? What patterns are we repeating?”
I also believe in self-supervision, which is an internal review of how I show up in any space, at any moment. In chaplaincy and clinical pastoral education, folks are invited to check how they enter into spaces. Because our attitude impacts how folks interact in our shared space.
That sort of review is just so important. Obviously, I don’t do that perfectly all the time. But that’s an ongoing practice that I try to engage in.
Teri: There’s been a lot of conversation about the format of General Assembly — the hybrid nature of this one, the loss of the exhibit hall. It’s clear people are so enjoying being together, with the dance parties breaking out and the welcome reception. We’ve all noted how everybody seems so hungry to be together in person.
How do you think this GA is going? How do you see us moving forward?
Jihyun: There are some constraints around that question. Because there are things that the last assembly decided. And then we’ll also be constrained by whatever this assembly decides.
In terms of process, there are already debrief conversations that Kate [Trigger Duffert, director of General Assembly planning] has planned for staff and the planning team, and then for a broader group of people. And we’ve had some process observers with us both in the form of equity support managers, including members of [the Committee on the Office of the General Assembly] and the General Assembly Committee on Representation to help us discern accessibility issues.
In all of those process observations and debriefing conversations, we’re looking to create an environment where people can participate fully. We also want to be good stewards, not just from a financial standpoint, but also from an environmental footprint. And we want people to connect.
I wonder if we’re getting stuck in a binary thinking about the assembly, or believing it has to look a certain way. For a while, we had those Big Tent gatherings to make up for the loss of the yearly meetings. Is there another idea that maybe we haven’t thought about yet that might actually be able to meet some of those needs?
Eric: I’m thinking about a couple of interconnected things related to community right now: Our newly elected co-moderators made a statement with their matching stoles, saying “We can’t be the church by ourselves;” The passing of POL-01 may cause some conservative congregations to leave the denomination; the decision not to do the Hands and Feet initiative this year; and the decision not have an exhibit hall at this assembly.
I guess my question can be boiled down to this: How do we continue to stay connected as a denomination?
Jihyun: We’re in a time where there aren’t easy answers. There have been conversations with the Presbytery of Utah, asking them, “What would you like for us to do?” Then after J. Herbert’s retirement, OGA was beginning to ask about the local implications of Hands and Feet. It’s great that we do it at the assembly, but what happens when we disperse? So OGA didn’t look at Hands and Feet and say, “No, we don’t want to do it anymore.” Rather, we began to ask, “Are there ways in which we deepen this work?”
OGA didn’t look at Hands and Feet and say, “No, we don’t want to do it anymore.” Rather, we began to ask, “Are there ways in which we deepen this work?”
Eric: In talking with J. Herbert, my understanding was that Hands and Feet was meant as a model for local churches and neighborhoods.
Jihyun: Some folks had a lot of passion about the cash bail piece and so wanted to go back into their communities to have some of those conversations.
But [OGA] began to wonder if there are ways we can actually give more support and scaffolding for congregations and Presbyteries to engage in those conversations with their communities.
We also had to assess our capacity. Coming out of the pandemic, we expanded our GA planning team by quite a bit. There was a smaller core team that used to plan General Assembly. Now many OGA staff are involved in various aspects of planning as we’ve been trying to strengthen the equity pieces, the training pieces, and rethinking all of that. We have had to rethink how we do General Assembly every two years since 2020. So I think some of [our decision to stop Hands and Feet] was around prioritizing our core functions while still having conversations with the [host] presbytery about their needs and what they would like to highlight.
Eric: What I’m hearing is there’s been a decentralization of the planning process even though the General Assembly is much smaller in the sense of the number of people. I mean, we used to have 5,000 to 7,000 people at General Assembly. That’s clearly not the case today. So there have been shifts in format and in the realities facing a mainline denomination in the 21st century. So it’s natural that people are lamenting and grieving the loss.
What I’m hearing from you is more pieces still need to be sort of put back together. Is that fair?
Jihyun: Yeah, I think so.
Eric: Maybe in a different format?
Jihyun: Right, yeah.
Eric: I think it’s the reunion piece that people are really wanting.
Jihyun: I think, Eric, though, I think it’s not just a reunion, right?
You’re talking about spaces that allow people to meet across differences and build bridges. To actually transcend differences. It goes beyond reunion.
I want to keep holding those questions. I don’t think we have the answers to that, yet.
Teri: You mentioned a decentralization of the planning process. From our perspective at Presbyterian Outlook, we’ve noticed OGA doing a lot of listening. But there are also many organizations outside the national offices and the national agencies who don’t feel as if we’ve been invited to give input.
Jack Haberer had a great quote about the exhibit hall being the place where all the misfits could meet. At this GA, it feels like the national staff have been privileged. I don’t think the intention was to exclude, but the result has been a GA where the national agencies have tables and opportunities to be here with commissioners and the others don’t get that opportunity to build relationships.
Jihyun: Maybe [the GA planning process] has not been decentralized. Maybe we’re working towards a broadening. As we try this model again, could we actually listen a little bit more broadly?
Part of my science background is about making hypotheses. Everything’s provisional. We try something. Then ask, “What did we learn?” So, thanks for that perspective. That’s very helpful to hear.
Part of my science background is about making hypotheses. Everything’s provisional. We try something. Then ask, “What did we learn?”
Eric: What are you excited about?
Jihyun: I am so hopeful for the church. I think we’re really on some sort of cusp. I don’t know what that cusp is, but there’s just so much potential, so much energy, so many resources. As we keep asking questions and as we discern where God is calling us to take the next steps, I think there’s an exciting possibility for us to be impactful and joyful living witnesses to Christ’s love and justice in this time and place. That is good news. I’m really excited for us to discern that together and to be able to do that in our local communities because each of our contexts have different needs, as we keep hearing, right?
We may be addressing different concerns community by community, but we also have a common voice within that diversity as the PC(USA), and we’re excited to bring that good news to the world.
We may be addressing different concerns community by community, but we also have a common voice within that diversity as the PC(USA), and we’re excited to bring that good news to the world. It makes me tear up a little bit. I feel really passionate.
It makes me tear up a little bit. I feel really passionate. That’s what I’m really most excited about for us to continue that journey together as a denomination.