(Editor’s Note: This is the second portion of a recent interview with Stated Clerk Clifton Kirkpatrick on topics ranging from ecumenical concerns to issues facing the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) at the General Assembly coming in June. The first installment ran in the March 27 issue.)
Ecumenical issues, continued
Outlook: Tell us about your visit with the pope (Pope Benedict XVI).
Cliff Kirkpatrick: I got added respect–they called me “Your Excellency” there. I don’t get that around here! This really has been several months period of a sense of blessing that we are moving to a greater sense of Christian unity. … When this pope was elected, I, among others, had some real concerns that the Roman Catholic Church was selecting a pope that might not move us forward in the cause of Christian unity. There are still obviously major differences we and other churches have. But I have been struck with the energy Pope Benedict has taken toward wanting to grow Christian unity. I went obviously in my role as president of the World Alliance of Reformed Churches–the body that relates to the Vatican. I had a good conversation with the pope about a mutual commitment to moving forward in Christian unity, to building on three rounds of dialogue we have already had with the Catholic Church. … I was fascinated by the interest both with the pope and with the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, which is the group we work with most closely, on how we might together commemorate the 500th anniversary of the Reformation. Calvin’s 500th birthday is in 2009. Luther’s 95 Theses 500th anniversary is in 2017. And they were very interested to see if together Protestant and Catholic Churches might do an assessment of where we have come together and where we are still apart. As they see it, some of this recent work on justification by faith, the Catholic claiming of the role of Scripture–many of those things Catholics would see as their appropriation of some of the gifts of the Reformation. I think they would hope we would appropriate more of the gifts of the historic Episcopate. We had a fruitful time both theologically and practically where the celebration of the Reformation could be seen as something that divides us is a time to do an assessment of where we have come together, to find those common points that do reflect the steps we need to take on the path back to Christian unity without, at the same time, setting aside some of the deep convictions that are at the heart of who we are, growing out of the Reformation.
Outlook: What would be a follow up to that?
Kirkpatrick: The immediate follow up is we are in conversations now with the Lutheran World Federation, the Anglican Communion, with the Pontifical Council about doing a joint study on the commemoration of the 500th anniversary. We have had conversations with the Pontifical Council about our next round of dialogue between the Reformed and Catholic Churches … focusing on issues partly growing out of our churches in the south, about the connection between justification and justice–how justification by faith leads us to be people of justice in the world. … We in the Alliance are doing a major focus on the 500th anniversary of Calvin and what are the gifts of Calvinism for today. They have offered to do a Catholic appreciation of John Calvin.
PC(USA) concerns
Outlook: Looking forward to the GA, there is (coming together) with the Cumberland churches. Tell us your hopes for that; obviously it dovetails with this in terms of the ecumenical effort.
Kirkpatrick: It does dovetail. …We need to bring that to the Presbyterian family here in this country. And I think this is an important step in this direction. This isn’t a GA focused on reunion. It is focused on the fact that in the 300th year of American Presbyterianism, it is the 300th anniversary for all of us. We need to celebrate together and I hope we will do that. I hope we will come to know one another as brothers and sisters in Christ and that will facilitate even more cooperative ministry on the local level. I hope it will strengthen so many things we are called to do together–military chaplaincy, Books of Common Worship we do together, migrant ministries, common churches. I hope … it will bring us closer together, remind us all of our common Presbyterian heritage and spark a sense of Christian unity. I know many people have been concerned that we have not been outreaching enough toward more conservative groups. I hope this is one of those steps; Christian Churches Together is another, The Global Forum is another.
Outlook: One of the ironies of our reality right now, and you have hinted at it, is that on the one hand there are some positive things going on in regard to building unity … The obvious irony is that people are talking about the division of the PC(USA) in louder and more threatening terms than we have heard before. Any thoughts about that as we look to the General Assembly and beyond the Assembly?
Kirkpatrick: It is very painful. I grew up in a church part of which is now in the PCA and part of which is in the EPC. My goal through all my ministry is … to do everything to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bonds of peace. Schism in the church is not the way to resolve our issues. I am grateful … (in) the Task Force, we have had a group of 20 people that represent the wide diversity of this Church that have modeled for the church how to move forward in a spirit of unity and integrity to one another. While I deeply regret these groups that lead us toward schism, there are models out there that will lead the great bulk of the church toward greater Christian unity than if we had not been down this road. I’m grateful for the work that has been done and I think it will bear some fruit.
Outlook: What about contentious issues coming before the Assembly this year–any comments about them?
Kirkpatrick: I hope they are less contentious! Obviously the biggest ones are … the Task Force, ordination, human sexuality. We will also be dealing with the Middle East. And while that one has been very painful, I think the General Assembly’s action and leadership on that one has led two different things to happen. One, we have been in more serious dialogue between our congregations and the Jewish community than we have been in a long time and I think that has borne some real fruit. And, we have both had an impact and built a set of relationships between our churches and the churches in the Middle East that will bear lasting fruit. … Like most Assemblies, I go to them with a long list of what are serious, contentious issues. … Our experience has been, for those commissioners there, when you ask what has been most significant about the Assembly, (the response) will always be, “an experience of worship that transformed my life,” and “a sense of unity with fellow Presbyterians that I never imagined possible.” I do hope this Assembly will be a blessing to people and will build that greater sense of unity. We are obviously not of one mind on a whole series of issues and we will debate them at the Assembly. But I am also confident the Holy Spirit will be at work building a new sense of unity and common ministry among us, too.
Outlook: What are the possible sleeper issue(s) for this GA? Are there any issues that deserve more attention, but haven’t received it because of these issues you have already enumerated?
Kirkpatrick: One of the things I’m personally committed to is to make those assessments ahead of time, make sure there is enough time in committees for people to debate them and that people are aware of it. Some of them we know. The financial crisis affecting the church will be a difficult one, the GAC, the historical society. Some we’ve talked about before … abortion, ordination of Christian educators.
Outlook: When you read news reports about the PC(USA), what one or two areas do you think are the most misunderstood?
Kirkpatrick: In the public press in the last year or two–(it) has been the nature of our witness relative to the Middle East in terms of our deep commitment to both the security and well-being of … Israel and Palestine and all that goes with that–I think that clearly is the most misunderstood. At times … any kind of reporting, whether it is secular or church reporting, focuses on the latest crisis. What I worry about in the midst of all of that is we miss some of the day-to-day vitality as well as the struggles of our local congregations. I visit a lot of churches. … I am struck over and over again that the gospel is being preached, the sacraments are celebrated, there is a sense of Christian community. There is a vital witnessing community out there. And I’m afraid … in a world where the news reporting is geared toward the latest conflict that we are missing that story, of the life and witness of our congregations.
